Curse

keli · May 07, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by alluring athena

Actually the answer is "yes" any pve guild worth 1/2 a damn will take any player into any area and help them learn

Such a common misconception that PVP > PVE
and therefore a person who only PVPs and has tigers and whatever other emote gimmick is somehow greater than everyone else.
Unjustified elitism
Get off your pedestal because trust me...very few people are actually looking "up" to you.

believe me, who can play pvp is more skilled than who can not

MisterB · May 07, 2009, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal. They expect you to demonstrate competence and experience. Discrimination does not equal elitism, and it is not "retarded" to discriminate. Please tell me you haven't tried the same argument in a job interview, i.e. "Employers are retarded and elitist; they won't hire me."

dansamy · May 07, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Half the crap people are saying in this thread isn't even the truth. Nobody gives a crap about your ranks in RA/TA/HA. Social networking in GW will get you into higher quality PvP groups. I was, at best, an "average" player. I ran with "better than average" groups and players because of good social networking. It helped that I was competent enough to play what they asked me, and they didn't ask me to play things I'm not competent to play. (OMG! Balthazar help you if you ever asked me to play warrior!) Now, to get networked to some decent PvPers, you do have to go where PvPers play. And that ain't DoA. Your best bet is to start PuGging HA. Yes, you'll be in a lot of crappy groups for a while. Eventually, you'll meet people you liked playing with and they liked you. You'll build a friends list. (FYI, ditch your PvE friends off the list right now. They'll get over it.) You'll get added to some of their friends lists. Before you know it, you'll get whispers every time you log on, asking you to come HA. And leaving PvP is pretty much the opposite. You just start saying no and people eventually don't ask you to come anymore. They shake their heads and tell their groups "she's not PvPing anymore".

alluring athena · May 07, 2009, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal. They expect you to demonstrate competence and experience. Discrimination does not equal elitism, and it is not "retarded" to discriminate. Please tell me you haven't tried the same argument in a job interview, i.e. "Employers are retarded and elitist; they won't hire me."

This is actually a very good comment i admit I agree with

However it is not an objective point of view in the majority of cases and people. You need to go no further than read numerous comments posted in this thread alone to see that many people are acting elitist and holier than thou.

Apollo Smile · May 07, 2009, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal. They expect you to demonstrate competence and experience. Discrimination does not equal elitism, and it is not "retarded" to discriminate. Please tell me you haven't tried the same argument in a job interview, i.e. "Employers are retarded and elitist; they won't hire me."

As a person who is in charge of training new hires I can tell you we like fresh faces who are fast learners just as much.

Gun Pierson · May 07, 2009, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

There is no personal incentive for the kind of handholding you seem to expect.

Yes there is, to make the game or format popular. A real competitor wants to have decent and the best competition available. I'm sure there are players with talent in the large pool of pve players.

I understand your comment though, because you're amateurs and not pro players like in Starcraft and Warcraft3 and other online games that has pro players where the playerbase looks up to. Those guys organise lessons and what not, often not for free though. Nevertheless their replays can be downloaded and several offered tutorial movies for free.

Inde · May 07, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Actually Alluring, what MisterB said stands true. Though players are much more unprofessional in how they are expressing it, the same attitude is true in business as well:

"Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal."

That's what the players are doing here, while it involves smack talk, insults and more every employer who is hiring a higher end employee has the same objective as the higher end PvP Guild. Competition. Hiring the best. Who can help them reach the goal. By not calling you back after that interview in business, by turning you down and saying they hired someone more qualified.... a company is doing the exact same thing as these players. Rejection.

Also the same, in regards to business, is the networking aspect. In these times, networking is the fastest and best way to get a job versus the method the OP and others are using of randomly approaching guilds all over the place.

Amazing. Guild Wars PvP has become the job market.

Sarevok Thordin · May 07, 2009, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by tehlemming

There is no personal incentive for the kind of handholding you seem to expect.

I know this enough but ultimately it's going affect the health of PvP in the game.

It's a really nasty cycle and breaking it is not easy, but what you get out of it is a better competitive base to play against. You don't want to be fighting the same people time and time again do you?

MisterB · May 07, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

As a person who is in charge of training new hires I can tell you we like fresh faces who are fast learners just as much.

Someone who learns quickly becomes competent quickly.

Apollo Smile · May 07, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Actually Alluring, what MisterB said stands true. Though players are much more unprofessional in how they are expressing it, the same attitude is true in business as well:

"Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal."

That's what the players are doing here. While it involves smack talk, insults and more every employer who is hiring a higher end employee has the same objective as the higher end PvP Guild. Competition. Hiring the best. Who can help them reach the goal. By not calling you back after that interview in business, by turning you down and saying they hired someone more qualified.... a company is doing the exact same thing as these players. Rejection.

Also the same, in regards to business, is the networking aspect. In these times, networking is the fastest and best way to get a job versus the method the OP and others are using of randomly approaching guilds all over the place.

Amazing. Guild Wars PvP has become the job market.

Yeah, too bad the outlook for this "job" is very poor.

Inde · May 07, 2009, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollo Smile

Yeah, too bad the outlook for this "job" is very poor.

Not to mention the pay sucks. You're working for bragging rights... at best.

Crom The Pale · May 07, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Something both PvE and PvP players appear to forget is that we learn via trial and error. Not a large number of PvE players walked into DoA and cleared it on there first attempt. The same can be said to any PvP arena, GvG tournament or HoH.

I am a great PvE player. Which means that I am great at PvE, nothing more nothing less.

I am a below average PvP player. Doesn't mean I don't know the builds or the skills or team work. What it means is this;

5000 hours spent playing, 4950 in PvE and 50 in PvP. Reverse the numbers and I would be a great PvP player. ( that and a high speed conection

)

Both sides need to stop insulting each other and just play the game, this is about a game after all. I will say that PvP doesn't have a decent training ground, you can't really learn how to GvG in RA or Alliance battles. If you can't create your own guild or find one that doesn't mind a few losses while training your pretty much out of luck.

aubray1741 · May 07, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

LOL!

byteme! · May 07, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Old arguments....

It ain't like PvP is gonna grow leaps and bounds anyways. Just let it die. It's inevitable unless we start getting a flood of fresh new blood. It's been said many many times in the past (3-4 years now?) so I don't suspect anything is gonna change.

Gun Pierson · May 07, 2009, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Amazing. Guild Wars PvP has become the job market.

Difference is there are no thousands of candidates that are desperately looking for a job in the PvP department, they already have a much more attractive one, PvE. It pays worse than the PvP job, but you have to work less and the colleagues are not all career chasers

And the ones that do try the new PvP job, often return to the old PvE workplace.

Don't take this post seriously, my previous two posts are what it's all about.

Esan · May 07, 2009, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

It pays worse as the PvP job

A competent PvPer will rake in gold faster than the best PvErs can ever dream of.

alluring athena · May 07, 2009, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Yes there is, to make the game or format popular. A real competitor wants to have decent and the best competition available. I'm sure there are players with talent in the large pool of pve players.

It's a certainty there are talented players out there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

I understand your comment though, because you're amateurs and not pro players like in Starcraft and Warcraft3 and other online games that has pro players where the playerbase looks up to. Those guys organise lessons and what not, often not for free though. Nevertheless their replays can be downloaded and several offered tutorial movies for free.

The player base will never start looking up to the "pro PVPers" as long as they continue to look down their virtual toon noses at us.

Angelina Collins · May 07, 2009, 11:27 PM // 23:27

GW PvP is for retards, no skill involved what so ever. And don't let them fool you in saying that it takes tactics and skill and knowlegde, truely it's just like PvE, all it takes is grind, more grind, then more grind. All high level PvPers are nothing more then grinders, who play over and over and over again, sure after a while you will seen like your a pro, because you know every map like it's the back of your hand, but notice this, give them new skills and new maps, and you will see them start to suck, untill they grind the hell out of it again.

So if you like grinding, then you will like PvP, and you don't need a guild, or experience, you just need 8 to 12 deticated players, you know when to follow directions and when to be leaders, and then you need to start grinding, and before you know it, you will be the eletist guild. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Selket · May 07, 2009, 11:29 PM // 23:29

I have had a change of heart. I will help you, OP, I'll teach you everything you need to know.

IGN - Lemming Frenzyface

Yichi · May 07, 2009, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

Half the crap people are saying in this thread isn't even the truth. Nobody gives a crap about your ranks in RA/TA/HA. Social networking in GW will get you into higher quality PvP groups. I was, at best, an "average" player. I ran with "better than average" groups and players because of good social networking. It helped that I was competent enough to play what they asked me, and they didn't ask me to play things I'm not competent to play. (OMG! Balthazar help you if you ever asked me to play warrior!) Now, to get networked to some decent PvPers, you do have to go where PvPers play. And that ain't DoA. Your best bet is to start PuGging HA. Yes, you'll be in a lot of crappy groups for a while. Eventually, you'll meet people you liked playing with and they liked you. You'll build a friends list. (FYI, ditch your PvE friends off the list right now. They'll get over it.) You'll get added to some of their friends lists. Before you know it, you'll get whispers every time you log on, asking you to come HA. And leaving PvP is pretty much the opposite. You just start saying no and people eventually don't ask you to come anymore. They shake their heads and tell their groups "she's not PvPing anymore".

probably one of the only useful posts in this entire thread.